tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-960370043342228756.post1407672174377789330..comments2024-01-31T16:19:59.446+02:00Comments on Denford Magora's Latest Zimbabwe News Blog: Morgan vs Bob - The Plot ThickensUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-960370043342228756.post-11189159669789764712008-12-08T08:30:00.000+02:002008-12-08T08:30:00.000+02:00we only have ourselves to blame for letting bob be...we only have ourselves to blame for letting bob be were he is right now........it's our own ignorance & selfishness that has allowed bob to ruin our country & no-one but us can liberate us from this heartless dictator. The sooner we realise this the better otherwise time is not on our side.....do you want to wait until thousands of people die of hunger or cholera or when the economy has stopped functioning. No one wants to start war but mass protests, as I see it, is the answer.....we don't have any other option...GNU is getting us nowhere...the next election isn't coming anytime soon....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-960370043342228756.post-64218320218147089652008-12-06T01:05:00.000+02:002008-12-06T01:05:00.000+02:00Darlington, you misunderstand completely. This art...Darlington, you misunderstand completely. This article is NOT calling for people to take up arms. In fact, if it is calling for anything, it is calling for the opposite of that.<BR/>What I am saying is that, should people come out, unarmed, to protest in the streets in their numbers, refusing to leave the streets even if the regime should fire on them, they would succeed because as they are mowed down, the world would surely then intervene.<BR/>You also contradict yourself by saying hungry and diseased people can't do anything, but weren't the French people (whom you say you compare the Zimbabwe people today to) also hungry and ill? Yet did they not stage a successful revolution? have never bought that argument about people being too hungry to protest.<BR/><BR/>The real problem is that Zimbabweans are too selfish. That is all there is to it. They want lierty but they do not want to go out onto the streets. We like to think we are too educated and therefore the logical thing for this reasoning is that we do not fight, we negotiate. We appoint a man to negotiate for us, Morgan, and yet when he is outwitted at the negotiation table we blame Mbeki, SADC, African Union etc.<BR/>Basically, we are saying that the whole world (or Africa at least) is wrong and we are right. I find that difficult to accept.<BR/>Kenya is at peace today because Odinga negotiated with a man who stole an election from him. There are many other examples like that.<BR/>Yet we seem to want to have our cake and eat it.<BR/><BR/>WHAT DID WE EXPECT FROM THE NEGOTIATIONS? Mugabe stole an election because he wanted to continue in power. Did you think that he would then simply surrender that power after he had killed for it as he did in June? Did you think that we would get a fair deal as the people when we went in to negotiate with this Commander-in-thief?<BR/><BR/>If Tsvangirai thought so then he is more naive thn I thought. Mugabe was going to try and keep as much power as possible in these negotiations, we should have known that, either that or we should have not started the negotiations at all. <BR/><BR/>Tsvangirai has surprised me by the amount of concessions he has managed to get from Mugabe. He has reduced the dictator's powers incredibly and the people of Zimbabwe realise that. This is now the end game.<BR/><BR/>If we say we do not want this deal, we know exactly what will follow. We should then shut up and stop complaining to the world for teh enxt fiv years. We know what will happen if we walk away from the biggest climbdown by Mugabe since he was forced by Machel to go back to Lancaster House and accept Lord Carrington's deal in 1979.<BR/><BR/>If we think we can get a better deal, then we should go onto the streets to demand that better deal. Right now, the route we chose, negotiations, has played itself out. Either we accept the humiliation we have inflicted on Mugabe, go into government and strategise from there on how we will disable his machinery at the next election(a much better prospect from within government than from Harvest House) OR, cut or losses and hunker down, prepared to die like flies for teh next five years because we all know exactly what walking away from this deal entails.<BR/>It's compromise. It is the definition of negotiation. Give and take. Either we accept that or we shut up and suffer in silence for the next five years, instead of botherinf outsiders with our own self-inflicted injuries!<BR/>Thanks for the interaction!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-960370043342228756.post-7010622362638453102008-12-06T00:14:00.000+02:002008-12-06T00:14:00.000+02:00There are a couple of thing which I think are not ...There are a couple of thing which I think are not immediately obvious in your analysis:<BR/><BR/>The first is; I would compare the Zimbabwe situation to the French Revolution. Basically the people are so hungry they can't do anything. You can’t expect the vulnerable people who are being ravaged by hunger and disease to do anything. <BR/><BR/>The second is in the 21st century uprisings, things like picking up arms are now taboo. The moment you start talk like that you become a terrorist - even in this obvious case that you only seek to liberate yourselves. You need to be a Nobel Laureate to call for war.<BR/><BR/>There are thousands (I speculate – maybe a good poll for this site?) of willing Zimbabwean out there who will step forward at the click of a finger if it was an acceptable practice to pick up arms. This is no longer the case after things like September 11. You will be internationally condemned for it. We also rely on research which tells us that military does not benefit as much as we think it does.<BR/><BR/>To put the two together we are in an 18th century situation in the 21st century...Darlingtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09662314719614794029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-960370043342228756.post-70336889591937794142008-12-05T19:59:00.000+02:002008-12-05T19:59:00.000+02:00Whilst I agree with the abive views, I'm of the vi...Whilst I agree with the abive views, I'm of the view that the reasons why people can not take to the streets like in the olden days of 'ZHII!' is due to three things all experienced during e.g. Gukurahundi, various post election violence, murambatstvina, presidential campaigns etc; fear, poor leadership and having been let down in the past after making sacrifices. The fear is derived from the draconian way in which Mugabe and co. have gone about their business of crushing resistance whenever it has shown its ugly face and this is bound to get worse as the regime becomes more and more desperate. Poor leadership by the MDC leadership is now common knowledge and you can't tell if they are coming or going or if they are fighting to replace ZANU PF or to change the current draconian system. Lastly, people have been let down before by the those claim to have their interest at heart. You get beat up but get no medication, get arrested but no legal representation, score some small victories but not share on the rewards. So we all then ask ourselves this question, Is it therefore worth dying for Zimbabwe if at the end of day I still not be a stakeholder in the end? Something needs to give, particularly on not tolerating mediocre leadership and not belonging to organisations that use you not give you any stake or say!<BR/><BR/>LangaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-960370043342228756.post-55650880337359100572008-12-05T11:30:00.000+02:002008-12-05T11:30:00.000+02:00100% correct . The outside world has been wonderin...100% correct . The outside world has been wondering for a long time now why ordinary Zimbabweans do not take matters into their own hands. Do they expect the AU or the UN or the EU to send troops to oust Mugabe ?<BR/>As your article states , Zimbabweans must accept the fact that the future is in their own hands and stop waiting around for someone else to do something .Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-960370043342228756.post-4966348886171877612008-12-05T09:56:00.000+02:002008-12-05T09:56:00.000+02:00this has been my view all along that we should not...this has been my view all along that we should not look top Obama to remove Bob for us, the man has a load of problems such that Zim is the last thing on his mind. As it is now we have no other options but to pray that the army and the CIO turns against Bob guaranteeing these guys some form of immunity for helping us oust this mad man. The other likely course of action is mass protests in view of the whole world but I know us Zimbabweans we lack cohesion.....100 people plan for demo but only 20 attend. If the demos can be in full view if the world via satelite then maybe we won't be killed by Bob's army & police. Right now we are giving mixed signals that things are OK but our unwillingness to participate in events to oust Bob including NCA demo etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com